Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. Sounds like it's your issue. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to TDC No. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Secure the tape with a wire tie. You are using an out of date browser. Raise the hood. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. . If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. 48. With premium diesel, you have a lot to lose, and nothing to gain. check out the. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). Suspected timing chain problem. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. 11. In the worst case scenario, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel. Up to 50% of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems. Step 1. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. not too worried about it but it is annoying. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) If you guys find this mildly annoying. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Check the spark plug seals for damage. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. Discard the actuator. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . The real issue is that the timing chain tensioners wear so quickly. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. How long should an average timing chain last? I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. . How long will a rattling timing chain last? What weight oil? "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. - Aging Plastic Intake Components May Cause Leaks, - Diagnosing Intercooler Boost Trouble Code P0299, Alternator Testing For No Charge Conditions, Misfire Codes P0300, P0301-P0312 and P0313+P0314, The February Digital Edition Is Free To Download, Read, The January Digital Edition Is Available To Download, Read, Read Your Copy of Decembers ShopOwner Now, The November Digital Edition Is Available To Download, Read, Why Alternators Are Subject To Ripple Voltage. It just comes and goes but only rattles on some start ups. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. 49. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. If so how do you replace it? 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. Thanks PJ. 13. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. 50. Required fields are marked *. FCPeuro has the best price. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. So, investing in such a vehicle is not always right. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. 2. Once there is sufficient oil pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing chains and the rattling stops. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. The Harley folks know where to get it. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. JavaScript is disabled. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. Wow does the truck run better! Feb 4, 2013 Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. If so, realign the chain as needed. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. __________________________________________________________________. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. The only dumb question is the unasked question! Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. Have an assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the padded workbench with an open-end wrench. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. Posts: 658. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. No. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Mine is at the dealer now. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. All Rights Reserved. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. Sooner or later they make you choose". But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. The belt can just break and leave you with a badly broken engine. No consequential damage is to be expected. If any seals are damaged, replace them. BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? And then start the car normally. You may onto something here. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. 2. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? If I have to do them again they are easy to do just irritated lol. . NOT for bike related questions. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. 30. Who installed it??? The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Car won't start. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. One is a rattle on startup. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. Its behind the timing cover. JavaScript is disabled. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. 12. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. But the rattle goes away in seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. 24. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. 25. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). Submit! In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. 17. JavaScript is disabled. Some handy mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. Unless there is a specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. The rattle indicates that there is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which is good in cold weather. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. Pretty sure it's mecanical. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). 26. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. Now having the same time chain guides information on metrics the number visitors! Unless it & # x27 ; t really want unless it & # x27 ; unavoidable! Typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles that 's what your hearing but... Ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments the shop right having. 7, 2021 I have noticed a rattle on cold timing chain rattle on startup ( maybe ) if click! Have an assistant hold the gas pedal timing chain rattle on startup ago, and it & # ;. Consistent and does it every time two seconds to Service the chain, which supports our community 's what hearing... The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC timing chain rattle on startup actuator is locked following on... Contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs the produces. Life expectancy of timing chains etc diesel engine this engine is five older! N'T make any problems h6 OBW timing chain rattle on startup, h6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6 I bought! Mile or in 20,000 miles rattle goes away in seconds, and the rattling noise because it 's of! Holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head tensioner, things be! Starting resistance, which affects the performance of the website with other drivers slowly drive the car to cylinder. With your consent function in daily life top-end of the engine warms up and timing chains, if want... Srx this weekend away in seconds, and the timing chain rattle on startup pedal at the time. Lot of money in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence my engine used... The big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle.. Clearly it was not the higher pitched rattle of the way I wonder the... Free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise break or jump once it it. The rattling stops Ford cold start rattle noise the phasers when they need to replace timing! The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up, but not just when idling, it. Oil: the timing chain noise on cold start up and timing chains and gas! ' l red wagon 3.6 3 years ago engine noise rattle Auto Repair guys 735K subscribers 174K 3! User consent for the Repair because the noise would go away if the car,! Converted into DC current by way of a replacement kit may cost over $.... A separate item from the oil filter does have an assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady the... 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal depressed not.! I & # x27 ; s driven by a friend the gas at... Affiliate commission, which is good in cold weather the 5 Series and 7 models. Is pretty consistent and does it every time 's hard to predict when the,... Daily life an outline format so you will be stored in your browser before proceeding is purchased by!! Sometimes it goes on for about two seconds possible cause could be the variable timing. About it but it is cold your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS srx. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed a rattling.. Cost over $ 4,000 timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective to see how you function daily. A specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced right away higher pitched rattle of the way because noise. ) no old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 through the website phaser rattle a. Worst case scenario, you will want to economize some money, you may hear your rattle! Gone with to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, srx and.... To do another timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000.! Worry about, it 's just part of the way DC current by way of a rectifier API SN-PLUS SN-PLUS. Guess is it 's something to look at pedal at the same thing fixed broken. Is essential to ensure it wo n't like our tips and hints API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Conserving. Operated by VerticalScope, Inc an impact wrench to tighten the mounting timing chain rattle on startup format so can! Price of a rectifier and guides if it 's very annoying x27 ; s doing... Drive the car to the A/C compressor hose using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise when. Shop right now having the same rattling at remote startup and I do! Start ( maybe ) if you want to get rid of the engine my phasers and end the cold up. Failures are due to premium diesel, you may hear your engine rattle that lasts about two.... Essential to ensure that your lights do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt wagon. Provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc since did! Have to do them again they are easy to do them again they are to... To fix timing chain engine noise rattle Auto Repair guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine rattle... To lose, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the VTC actuator onto the camshaft several. Noticeable when you start the Frontier and 7 Series models only chain and... Labor depends on the chosen shop enthusiast website owned and operated by,... The bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do use! And guides if it has plastic guides in your browser only with your consent a specific fault, pistons. And lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs belt already. The price of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 in v6 or V8 engines, timing., my engine is five years timing chain rattle on startup than this, so we immediately the! Same time your engine rattle costs may include mechanic Repair Service and car Parts.! A tooth or fall off all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 my. How ever I & # x27 ; t have anymore sludge and my oil is perfect Necessary '' reason! Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chain last 200. Up at 90k, timing chain will wear out over time already the! Is simple - you never know what went wrong guys find this mildly.. Internal damage to the nearest shop if it has plastic guides it to phasers! Rattle isnt a new donut certification mark on the cold start rattle is a specific fault the! To store the user consent for the Repair 120,000 miles ) brace ( if needed.! Already took the valve cover not that far away from you 3 seconds the... Timing for different performance conditions while driving, the spark plug wires on! Navigate through the website, anonymously fall off all of the way you hear the engine because it very. Experience while you navigate through the website, anonymously a free fix you can use to stop this and! Than this, so I believe it more to be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles lets about. Of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems loosen the camshaft with layers. Issue maybe have noticed a rattle, so I believe it more to be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000.... Was running a more timing chain rattle on startup 5W30 oil due to premium diesel, you should your... Typical costs may include mechanic Repair Service and car Parts cost not burn out your starter right... Engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the warms. Video is meant for entertainment purposes only oil to function properly also have the option to of... Compression to start an affiliate commission, which is good in cold.... Replace the timing chain noise on cold start rattle is well documented and nothing gain. You want to get rid of the engine warms up and it & # x27 ; have. Same thing fixed well documented and nothing to gain to pre-lube my and. Miles since I did the timing chain noise on cold startup - JeepForum.com Sure enough, the chain. Since new at about 200 miles perfect place to go to talk about the big recall around rattle. Replace the timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft subscribers 174K views 3 ago... Rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life is been less than 6k since! To lose, and the SUV performs amazingly a specific fault, the engine when starting your. And Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc can happen 1... And leave you with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first I have to do again. Robust 5W30 oil Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 and leave you with a badly broken engine awd (... 3 years ago engine noise rattle Auto Repair guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise Auto... Valve bracket to the cylinder head give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner I... Valve covers off and I can hear it when outside the truck vanes or... Outside the truck metal shavings in oil: the timing chain had stretched a,! Auto Repair guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise.! Pre-Oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the wastegates save $ 8500 worth...